The Dinky Toys & Dinky Supertoys Guy lorry. 1947 - 1958.

We have been trading in DINKY TOYS now for twenty five years plus, and as we specialised in the Foden and Guy commercial models, we decided to look into the history of the colours made as there is an increasing amount of non original factory released colours on the market [just like the Foden models] and second to that, there are many models being sold on the wrong style boxes. We spent about ten years over the course of our collecting/trading years to look into the history of those models using original archive material, and the following colours/box styles in the History section are from those findings and are definitive.

Because the Fodens and Guy lorries use a nut and bolt to secure the back to the cab & chassis, it opens the way to a never ending source of new, non original factory colours, switching the back on one vehicle and placing it onto the cab & chassis of another. Most collectors know that this goes on and steer clear of those non original factory release colours. But, there are collectors who are naive about what colours are 'the real deal' and which are not. Many collectors seem to be guided by auction houses, and if they have a particular colour in their catalogue, it must therefore be correct!

Two colours that are easily made up and continuously made up and sold as rare colours are, the 'all mid blue wagon with mid blue coloured wheels' and the 'dark royal/violet blue and red flat bed'. The 'all mid blue wagon' always attract a premium price as a 'rare or even a very rare colour' and yet it is nothing more than the number 432 in mid blue and red flat bed [use the mid cab and chassis] and the wagon from either numbers 911 or 431 in duo blue [use the mid blue wagon] Once the 'all mid blue wagon' has come about, it leaves the way to make yet another so called rare colour. This is now using the number 911 or the number 431 cab and chassis in dark royal blue [or the number 913 or 433 cab and chassis in violet blue] and the number 432 red flat bed. *See pictures below.

And there are many other colours that we have seen and then end up being sold as rare colours, and they are just as easy to make up.

These are just some of those colours:

Number 913, orange and mid green tailboard, mid green coloured wheels! This uses the cab and chassis from the number 512 or the number 912 in orange and mid green flat bed, and the mid green flat truck/tailboard number 513 or the number 913.

Number 512(912), duo green flat truck! This uses the cab and chassis from the number 513 or the number 913 in duo green and the flat bed from the number 512 or the number 912 in orange and mid green.

Number 433, mid blue and orange tailboard! This uses the cab and chassis from the number 432 in mid blue and red flat bed and the tailboard from the number 433 violet blue and orange.

There are many more besides the above mentioned. So like the Foden, it doesn't matter whether someone tells you that it was bought from Hamleys or from the factory its self, if it can be made up, it is not a rare colour and worth no more than the two normal models sold individually.

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The History: 

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Guy 1st type 1947 - 1948.

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In August 1947, the Foden and the Guy Lorry were introduced to the world, and that Guy is now recognised as the first type casting cab. The reason being is that the casting that holds the base plate to the front of the cab, has two 'vertical bars' following the lines of the radiator and this was changed in 1955 with a heavier casting having extra supports, braces, and these were 'triangular' in shape. These 1947 first cab Guy's were issued in a 'plain brown card box' with a 'red & white label' on top and a small 'red & white label' on the end of the box lid informing of the model inside. A point of interest: the base of the box was purposely designed with no staples to one end as the model was to be put in the box on it's side with the roof at the non staple end, therefore no part of the model would touch any staples making way to chipping of the paint. (The same in design as the Foden models in the brown card box).

The casting, for the Flat bed and Flat bed/Tailboard, are different. It wasn't the case of using the same Flat bed/Tailboard casting and removing the Tailboard. The end of the flat bed does not house the third brace support in the middle as found on the Tailboard.
The very first Flat beds and Flat bed/Tailboards only had support brasses running from left to right underside and this casting was made for about two months only. After that, they added extra brasses running from front to back, this was then a standard casting on all Flat beds and Flat bed/Tailboards. There was no number cast underside of the Wagon, Flat bed or Flat bed/Tailboard, i.e. 511, 512, 513, as this was not introduced until September 1952. And once cast, those numbers were never changed and so remained on all castings including the late the Guy Warrior Flat Truck and Wagon lorries.
Again, the very first issues all use the 20mph either on the back of the Wagon, the back of the Tailboard or the rear wing on the Flat bed version, this was only in use for one month and deleted from all Guy lorries there after.
All 1947 Guy lorries used a 'small unpainted tow hook', a 'silver nut & bolt' fixing to secure the back to the cab and chassis and 'hub' type wheels. The 'supertoy' wheels were not introduced until 1952 [along with the change of the wheel design, the axles were also made thicker].
The rear axels were held in place by 'two clips' until April 1949 when they were replaced by a casting mount.

The boxes were colour coded on the end label and the base of the box denoting what colour model is inside the box. There will either be a small paint stamp on the end label, a coloured roundel measuring 12mm in diameter or a coloured letter, i.e. a Blue "B" or a Green "G" or a Red "R" and so on. The production code stamp, reading M19 on the base of the box, was also done in the same colour as the colour code on the end label. *See picture below for examples of this. However, either a dark grey, or black stamp was used on the base of the box in the case of the yellow issue models.

Please to note: the 1947 - 1948 Guy lorries were not issued in the light blue or dark blue paper issue boxes.

The first run of colours consisted of having the chassis painted in a separate colour to the cab and flat bed, the flat bed/tailboard and the wagon. The two front wheel arches were either hand painted or mask sprayed.

These colours are:

Number 511, brick red brown cab/wagon, black chassis and brown coloured wheels.

Number 511, green cab/wagon, black chassis and green coloured wheels.

Number 511, fawn cab/wagon, red chassis, and red coloured wheels.

Number 512, yellow cab/flat bed, black chassis and red coloured wheels.

Number 512, maroon cab/flat bed, black chassis and maroon coloured wheels

Number 512, grey cab/flat bed, black chassis, and black coloured wheels.

Number 512, fawn cab/flat bed, red chassis and red coloured wheels.

Number 512, khaki brown cab/flat bed, black chassis and green coloured wheels. (same colour wheels as used on the 511 in green & black).

Number 513, mustard yellow cab/flat bed/tailboard, black chassis and black coloured wheels.

Number 513, mustard yellow cab/flat bed/tailboard, dark blue chassis and dark blue coloured wheels.

Number 513, grey cab/flat bed/tailboard, black chassis and black coloured wheels.

Number 513, grey cab/flat bed/tailboard, dark blue chassis and dark blue coloured wheels.

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Guy 1st type 1948 - 1952.

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In September 1948 a second colour scheme was introduced. This consisted of having the cab and chassis painted in the same colour and the flat bed/wagon in a different colour. These very first run of colours still used a 'small unpainted tow hook', the large unpainted tow hook was not introduced until 1949, a 'silver nut & bolt' fixing to secure the back to the cab & chassis and 'hub' type wheels. The 'supertoy' wheels were not introduced until 1952. The rear axels were held in place by 'two clips' until April 1949 when they were replaced by a 'casting mount'.

All 1948 issues still used the 'plain brown card box' as the 'light blue paper style boxes' were not introduced until 1949. They still used a colour code on the end label and the base of the box denoting what colour model is inside the box. The boxes still used the single 'red & white label' on top and a small 'red & white label' on the end of the box. Also in 1948, they had a short run of labels used for the flat bed and wagon lorries in the form of a 'red & white label' continuous wrap around style covering both ends of the lid. *See pictures below for an example of this. 

 In late 1948 the label design had another change. It changed from the two 'red & white' design labels to a continuous 'orange & white label' covering both ends of the box lid. There was also another label used and this was in 'dull orange & white' and not to be confused or mistaken for a faded 'orange & white label'. The difference is in that, the wording is printed in 'dull orange' on a white background on both ends where as the 'orange & white label' has the words printed in 'black & white' on an orange background both ends. Also, the box/label is recognised by having the printed ends of the label in reverse to the standard box. The 'dull orange' label/box was only issued with three models, it was in use from 1949 and uses the 'light blue paper' only, this style box had a very limited run. *See pictures below for an example of this.  

 The colour coding will either be a small paint stamp on the end label, a coloured roundel measuring 12mm in diameter or a coloured letter, i.e. a Blue "B" or a Green "G" or a Red "R" and so on. The production code stamp on the base of the box was also done in the same colour as the colour code on the end label. Once the 'light blue paper style boxes' were introduced, the colour coding was simplified by using an ink letter stamp, i.e. a "B" for Blue or a "G" for Green and so on, and this was now a standard purple in colour.
The main run of 'blue paper style boxes' used an orange & white wrap around label with the words 'DINKY SUPERTOYS', then in 1952, the wording changed to 'DINKY TOYS'.

The early, second run of colours for the Guy consisted of:

Number 511, dark royal blue cab/chassis, mid blue wagon and mid blue wheels. Small unpainted tow hook.
Brown card box.

Number 511, dark royal blue cab/chassis, mid blue wagon and mid blue coloured wheels. Large unpainted tow hook. Brown or green paper style box

Number 511, dark royal blue cab/chassis, mid blue wagon and mid blue coloured wheels. Large unpainted tow hook. Blue paper style card box. 'dull orange & white label'.

Number 511, dark royal blue cab/chassis, mid blue wagon and mid blue coloured wheels. Large painted tow hook. Blue paper style card box.

Number 511, red cab/chassis, fawn wagon and red coloured wheels. Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 511, red cab/chassis, fawn wagon and red coloured wheels. Large unpainted tow hook. Brown or green paper style card box. *
(*The green style boxes had a production run of just under two years and were made from late 1948 until mid 1950. These run along side the end of run brown card).
The blue paper style boxes, using the orange and white wrap around label, were not issued until mid to late 1949.

Number 511, red cab/chassis, fawn wagon and red coloured wheels. Large painted tow hook. Blue paper style card box. 1950 onwards issue.

Number 512, brick red brown cab/chassis, mid green flat bed and dark green coloured wheels. (same colour wheels as used on the 511 in green & black) Small unpainted tow hook. This colour was made from the beginning of 1948 to late 1948. Brown card box.

Number 512, brick red brown cab/chassis, mid green flat bed and pale green coloured wheels. Small unpainted tow hook. This colour was made from the beginning of 1948 to late 1948. Brown card box.

Number 512, brick red brown cab/chassis, mid green flat bed and mid green coloured wheels. Small unpainted tow hook. This colour was made from the beginning of 1948 to late 1948. Brown card box.

Number 512, denim blue cab/chassis, red flat bed and red coloured wheels. Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 512, denim blue cab/chassis, red flat bed and mid blue coloured wheels. Large unpainted tow hook. Blue paper style card box.

Number 512, denim bluecab/chassis, red flat bed and mid blue coloured wheels. Large unpainted hook. Blue paper style box. 'dull orange & white label'.

Number 512, french blue cab/chassis, red flat bed and mid blue coloured wheels. Large unpainted tow hook. Blue paper style card box.

Number 512, dark burnt-orange cab/chassis, mid green flat bed and green coloured wheels. (same colour wheels as used on the 511 in green & black) Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 512, dark burnt-orange cab/chassis, mid green flat bed and pale green coloured wheels. Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 512, dark burnt-orange cab/chassis, mid green flat bed and mid green coloured wheels. Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 513, dark brunswick green cab/chassis, mid green flat bed/tailboard and green coloured wheels. (same colour wheels as used on the 511 in green & black) Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 513, dark brunswick green cab/chassis, mid green flat bed/tailboard and pale green coloured wheels.
Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 513, dark brunswick green cab/chassis, mid green flat bed/tailboard and mid green coloured wheels.
Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 513, dark brunswick green cab/chassis, pale green flat bed/tailboard and mid green coloured wheels.
Large unpainted and painted tow hook. Blue paper card box.

Number 513, dark brunswick green cab and chassis, mid green flat bed/tailboard and mid green coloured wheels. large unpainted tow hook. Blue paper box. 'dull orange & white label'.

Number 513, dark brunswick green cab/chassis, mid green flat bed/tailboard and mid green coloured wheels.
Large unpainted and painted tow hook. Blue paper card box.

Number 513, violet blue cab/chassis, dark burnt-orange flat bed/tailboard and mid blue coloured wheels. Small unpainted tow hook. Brown card box.

Number 513, violet blue cab/chassis, dark burnt-orange flat bed/tailboard and mid blue coloured wheels. Large unpainted and painted tow hook. Blue paper style box.

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Guy 1st type 1952 - 1954.

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In September 1952, the axels were made thicker and the wheels changed in design to what is now known as the 'supertoy' wheel. The casting for the Wagon, Flat bed and Flat bed/Tailboard also had a change as it was now introduced with the number 511,512 or 513 cast underside [it is still possible to find the very first issues of the supertoy wheeled models using the casting without the number cast underside]. However, once introduced, the numbering remained on the casting and was never changed, it was even still being used on the Guy Warrior Wagon (511 underside) and the Guy Warrior Flat Truck (512 underside).
All 1952 issue Guy lorries now use  'black nut & bolt' only to secure the back to the cab & chassis, the 'silver nut & bolt' was not introduced on the Guy again until 1955. (A point of interest: that also applies the Foden and Leyland Comet lorries). All models now have the 'large tow hook' painted in with the chassis, with the exception of one model*.

The very first 1952 issue boxes continued to use the 'light blue paper' to cover the box and this soon changed to a 'dark blue paper' to cover the box and this continued on until 1954 when the box design changed to what is now known as the 'stripe box'.
The label is now a standard 'orange & white label' wrap around in design, and the initial run of boxes still used 'DINKY SUPERTOYS' on the label, but this was soon changed to 'DINKY TOYS' on the face of boxes 511, 512 and 513. The box, number 513, actually shows a small picture of the Guy with a tailboard unlike other earlier flat truck with tailboard boxes which just show a picture of flat truck on the face*.

The colour coding, to indicate the colour of the model inside, was simplified by just using an ink letter stamp, i.e. a "Y" for Yellow, or a "G" for Green and so on and this was now purple in colour and standard on all boxes. *See pictures below for an example of this.  

Number 511, dark royal blue cab/chassis, mid blue wagon and mid blue wheels.

Number 512, denim blue cab/chassis, red flat bed and red coloured wheels.

Number 512, orange cab/chassis, mid green flat bed and mid green coloured wheels.

Number 513,*yellow cab/chassis, mid green flat bed/tailboard and mid green wheels. Large 'unpainted' tow hook*. 
(*This version was made and came about using the cab/chassis which was left over from the Guy "Weetabix" vans. As with all the Guy vans, the cab/chassis never used the tow hook so a tow hook [large] was applied to an already painted cab/chassis. The correct box for this model is again the 'DINKY TOYS' box and the picture on the face actually shows a small picture of the Guy with a tailboard. This colour was never issued in a stripe box).

Number 513, dark brunswick green cab/chassis, pale green flat bed/tailboard and mid green coloured wheels.

Number 513, dark brunswick green cab/chassis, mid green flat bed/tailboard and mid green coloured wheels.

Number 513, violet blue cab/chassis, dark orange flat bed/tailboard and mid blue coloured wheels.

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Guy 1st type 1954 - 1955.

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In 1954, the box design changed to what is now known as the 'stripe box'. These first run of these issue boxes still used the old numbering 511, 512 and 513, and soon to be replaced by the later numbering of 911 and 913. The 512 number box, for some reason, was not changed until right at the end of this box style where it was then replaced by the yellow lidded box and numbered 432. You will however, find on some boxes, a number 912 stamped on besides or even over the 512 with an ink stamp, this was done at the factory to denote the later numbering. From 1955, the Guy was issued with a 'silver nut & bolt' to secure the back to the cab & chassis, but it will be possible to find models that still use the old 'black nut & bolt' fixing but only up until June 1955 when the nut & bolt was changed to a 'black nut & silver bolt' fixing, the same as the Foden.

Number 911, dark royal blue cab/chassis, mid blue wagon and mid blue coloured wheels. Black nut & bolt/Silver nut & bolt.

Number 512 (912), denim blue cab/chassis, red flat bed and mid blue coloured wheels. Black nut & bolt/Silver nut & bolt.

Number 913, dark brunswick green cab/chassis, mid green flat bed/tailboard and mid green coloured wheels. Black nut & bolt/Silver nut & bolt.

Number 913, violet blue cab/chassis, orange tailboard and mid blue coloured wheels. Black nut & bolt/Silver nut & bolt.

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Guy 2nd type 1955 - 1958.

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In April 1955, the nut & bolt was changed again [same as the Foden] to a 'black nut & silver bolt' to secure the back to the cab & chassis,
Also in April 1955, the casting for the cab and chassis had a slight change and this is now known as the second type casting. The support that holds the base plate on the front of the cab was made larger and the wording on the chassis had changed to 'DINKY TOYS' from 'DINKY SUPERTOYS' as on all other previous Guy lorries. It does not though, apply to the cab & chassis used on the Guy Vans, these still use 'DINKY SUPERTOYS' to the casting. (A point of interest: The same is said for the Leyland Comet lorries. If 'DINKY TOYS' is cast underside in the chassis, this is a 400 number series and should therefore be with a box numbered 417, 418 or 419)
The box was also re designed with the introduction of a 'yellow lid' box, from the 'stripe lid' box.*                                                                          (*The yellow lid box is often found and incorrectly described as an 'export box'. This is untrue, it is in fact a standard issue, universal box).

The colour coding, to indicate the model inside, used an 'adhesive colour spot' affixed to the end of the box. The original Dinky colour code spots are easily identified as they are centrally colour coded, surrounded with a white border. They are all one size, 6mm in diameter, the same as used on other boxes including passenger car boxes, coaches etc. We have seen 'other' colour spots used, which are bigger, flatter and have no white border, these are NOT original dinky colour spots but simply colour stickers you could but from any stationery shop.

The 1955/6 onward colours consist of:

Number 431, red cab/chassis, fawn wagon and red coloured wheels.*
(*This colour was re-introduced in the final years for a very short time. But for some reason, it was only issued with an unpainted tow hook).

Number 431, dark royal blue cab/chassis, mid blue wagon and mid blue coloured wheels.

Number 432, red cab/chassis, mid blue flat bed and mid blue coloured wheels.*
(*This colour is often misrepresented as a early number 512 as it is often found on a number 512 stripe box. To be the correct issue No 512, these boxes must have 55 [1955] or 56 [1956] dated on the inside of the lid and probably an ink stamp of 432 besides or even over the 512 number. The number 512 boxes were actually still being made using the numbering 512 right up to 1956).

Number 432, mid blue cab/chassis, red flat bed and mid blue coloured wheels.*
(*Very late examples of this colour can be found with a 'steel rivet' instead of the 'black nut & silver bolt' fixing. This was the last Guy model to be produced which ran until 1958 when it was replaced by the [then] "new" Guy "Warrior" cab).

Number 433, violet blue cab/chassis, orange tailboard and mid blue coloured wheels.

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 Please see page 3 for Information about fake models.